Educational Efforts to Help Voters Know the Difference

[Atlee]

I do not know how many of you here have seen my educational website which has been somewhat controversial, American Socialist Voter? I started this project some time back after watching a Tea Party protest and saw the Hammer and Sickle being associated with the Swastika and Obama with Hitler and Mao. It was crazy and showing of ignorance of the topic plus fear mongering. What I did was create a place where people could learn and see them all in one place.

I know it is not either the perfect topic or the perfect website so I could use some ideas to liven up the place and present our side and why Nazism is different. Maybe I should include the Tea Party with the Nazi list? Maybe then they would get a clue?

[theearthenjuan]

Its a decent site, its really hard to read the text... You should have another background. I really agree with most socialist ideals, but I also agree with anarcho-syndicalism. I'm a mixture of leftist ideals, and haven't found my place yet. I like how you have links to the various socialist parties. I like that. Just make the site easier to navigate, and make it softer on the eye.

[Black Dagger]

Atlee, can you please explain why you have two nazi's on your list of 'Uniquely American Personalities of Socialism'?

-Jeff Schoep - A contemporary leader of the so-called 'American National Socialist movement', I.E. the US Neo-Nazi movement.

-George Lincoln Rockwell - Founder of the American Nazi Party.

Moreover, Jeff Schoep's name as it appears on your list, is also an html link to a neo-nazi website: www [dot] nsm88 [dot] org/commandersdesk/

Can you please explain why you consider Nazi's to warrant inclusion on a socialist website, let alone a list of noteworthy american 'socialists'?

'National socialism' is a misnomer; it's an anti-socialist pseudo-fascist ideology - A banner held exclusively by white nationalists and other racists like the 'Christian Identity' movement.

The kind of people who advocate racialist non-sense like this (a quote from '25 point plan of national socialism', the site you link to on the 'Socialist Voter'):

"We demand the union of all Whites into a greater America on the basis of the right of national self-determination."

The kind of folks who also believe that the 'White Man' is the most oppressed person on earth, and that an apocalyptic 'race war' is coming (and even desireable) pitting 'Whites' against all 'Non-Whites' (and white 'race-traitors') to decide the fate of the world, and of their beloved 'White Race' etc. They also believe other off-the-wall stuff like Jewish peoples are directly descended from a union of biblical 'Eve' and 'Satan' and generally, are pretty much as far away from 'socialism' as you can get... in terms of every component of their ideology.

Racism, fascism, nazism etc. are not welcome here, and have nothing at all to do with 'socialism'

[Atlee]

The website came from the idea after watching the Tea Party rallies on TV and seeing symbolism from both nationalism and communism being used out of context. The website is "non-partisan" and is, and states, "for educational purposes" to help clear up misconceptions seen in the media hype. I have been trying here and there to make it a little more clear so that the public has a quality place to learn from what the differences are between those who are claiming the term "socialism" and different ideologies, tendencies, caucuses, past and current movers and shakers.

I find that by painting one side over the other does not help anyone wanting to learn. Since I am a social scientist I have to teach the differences for developed understanding. It is however not my main project and the site has been suffering some lately.

If anyone has anything to beef up their side then they can drop me a note. If someone has a better way to organize the information that would be nice too.

I was looking at Christmas break to reorganize the website.

[Black Dagger]

I'm sorry Atlee, but that isn't a justification for effectively promoting american neo-nazi organisations or individuals.

If your website is for educational purposes why misrepresent socialism? The socialist tradition is clearly at odds with the violent racism characteristic of so-called 'national socialism' - I guess I would ask - what aspect of their ideas make their inclusion relevant to an education about socialist ideas? Especially considering the purpose of your site was apparently to dispell misunderstandings of distortions linking nazism with socialism.

[Amoeba]

The website came from the idea after watching the Tea Party rallies on TV and seeing symbolism from both nationalism and communism being used out of context. The website is "non-partisan" and is, and states, "for educational purposes" to help clear up misconceptions seen in the media hype. I have been trying here and there to make it a little more clear so that the public has a quality place to learn from what the differences are between those who are claiming the term "socialism" and different ideologies, tendencies, caucuses, past and current movers and shakers.

I find that by painting one side over the other does not help anyone wanting to learn. Since I am a social scientist I have to teach the differences for developed understanding. It is however not my main project and the site has been suffering some lately.

If anyone has anything to beef up their side then they can drop me a note. If someone has a better way to organize the information that would be nice too.

I was looking at Christmas break to reorganize the website.

Well, if you want to keep the references to Nationalism Socialism in there, but are opposed to it and consider it a reactionary ideology and perversion of the term "Socialism", then a good idea would be to make that clear by either adding a note to the links or putting them on a separate page entitled something like "Misrepresentations of Socialism".

Having them in the general links section along with other parties which are socialist can cause confusion and may lead one to believe that the site itself considers National Socialism to be within the spectrum of socialist ideology.

[Atlee]

... within the spectrum of socialist ideology.

I started a new thread to see if maybe we can come up with something better. I'd like to have things made more clearly. I'd like to make sure that we have a fully comprehensive website so those idiots waving hammer and sickle protest signs next to swastika protest signs begin to understand what it is they are doing wrong.

The space per page is limiting, so organizing it better, and maybe a detailed introduction home page would give better stepping stones to move forward with education of the topic.

We already see what having an IO has done in throwing up walls that have done nothing but create more problems. I talk to people and help them to learn why it is they are thinking in such a limited fashion. I do not try to hide them away or keep them out. I challenge them to think outside the box and to be more. If we have nothing but IOs then we live in a maze we cannot get out of.

[Black Dagger]

What is an 'IO'?

[Atlee]

Sorry, I meant OI for "opposing ideologies".

[Atlee]

This is a quick BUMP. I was wondering if we could come up with a better example of organizing the mixture of information? I was thinking of using three columns plus the sidebar. Maybe some simple listing?